Reconciling in Christ
Summary of Conversation
CtK Movie Night
For the Bible Tells Me So!
#5: Saturday, March 13, 2010, 5:30pm
20 people came together for a variety of soups, salad, bread and refreshments over fellowship before sitting down to view the film and sharing popcorn. This movie was a very direct, in-your-face, no phrases or words held back approach to a very thought-provoking subject. Through the history of the faith journeys of a few families, and when faced with difficult subjects, Christians can actually portray a negative approach through a literal approach of interpreting the Bible.
Conversation/Discussion and snippets on the Film, “For the Bible Tells Me So”:
God is love. There’s no monopoly on love.
Be thinking – examine prejudices. The Spirit is flowing.
In discussion, we need a balance of words and ideas. Through the struggle we can find acceptance and unconditional love.
The movie shows some horrendous messages of hatred – religious extremists.
Natural Church Development (NCD) at CtK is about passionate spirituality.
We need to have the ability to share compassion.
How can we cause so much pain in the name of God?
Many of the messages in the movie were literalism messages.
Love without acceptance – we need to find common ground.
Maybe we can Welcome unconditionally even if some cannot accept GLBT lifestyle.
Church + politics = judgements of sin. (Hate the sin and love the sinner)
Non-Christian behavior in upholding the Bible – be careful what you do in the name of God
Note the PBS report from Uganda about the evil being preached by US ministers that led to their government’s response of persecution for homosexuality – it was considered an affront punishable by death. We need to be cautious about interjecting beliefs on a culture without understanding the people.
Luther’s writing of Grace and social issues shape our thinking – very eloquent and passionate Gospel presentations. In Luther’s background, he became very frustrated when he couldn’t convert the Jews – he had vile teachings and actions.
Hitler and WWII – - religious philosophies caused great pain.
There is a human sense of compassion for Godly standards. Jesus welcomed everyone!
Find the good and leave the other to prayer, contemplation and God.
What are we hearing within the congregation?
Open the mind to healing, other opinions and loving one another.
In the process of examination of our conversations on Welcoming, there has been confusion with the extent of what is included? Blessing Ceremonies, Civil Unions, Marriages, Rostered Leadership are not included. Should there be separate future discussions on the rest of these?
Do we need a Welcoming statement?
There’s a history of hurt for GLBTs with the religious sector.
Movie noted that men in religious leadership with power and financial gain spread much hatred. (Example: Dobson, Graham, etc.)
True Welcome = can we welcome the person, but not the lifestyle?
Should the Welcome be encompassing/all inclusive?
If we don’t accept the lifestyle, then there seems to be ‘terms’ to the Welcome
We are within a Reconciling in Christ (RIC) Synod
The ELCA New England Synod, Women of the ELCA (W/ELCA)
and Lutheran Youth Organization (LYO) are all RIC organizations.
We need to check our words and actions – part of being welcome.
It is enriching to embrace ‘others’. Serving God is more important than labels
A welcoming statement sends positive message to GLBTs:
Defense from persecution
Tolerance
Sanctuary = they know it is a safe place, a place of prayer and revelation.
There are some scripturally-based CtK members who may feel strongly that homosexuality is sinful – (note New Testament literal references) – who would like to detach Welcoming from any Blessing Ceremonies and Rostered Leadership decisions.
There may be a fear of conflict within the congregation – strong positions may not be shared fully.
Notion of Welcome – all should be allowed to come to God
Lutherans Concerned North America (LCNA) Reconciling in Christ (RIC) Program – There are specific guidelines for drafting a Welcoming statement with an approval process. We have samples that have been reviewed – some which are lengthy and very specific and others which are shorter and very concise.
We can draft a Welcoming Statement without becoming part of Reconciling in Christ – but we must keep in mind that GLBTs look to the internet for list of RIC congregations. CtK would be placed on that list if we become an RIC congregation.
We tend to send the message that we’re NOT welcoming if we don’t have an intentional statement; People would assume that we’re not welcoming due to history of religious persecution.
ELCA Social Statement – understanding diversity of opinion – we are in-between.
Policy is currently being developed for rostered leadership in relationships (same-gendered and committed.)
State legislation that relates to same-gendered unions in NH.
Need for guidelines for liturgy/ritual of Blessing Ceremonies has been requested by our Synod.
We need to ask the congregation and get leadership approval
Pastors have been asked not to sign marriage certificates for same- gendered couples, but can bless unions.
Churchwide Assembly document – sexuality statement
ELCA is exploring opportunity for pastors within same gendered relationships to become rostered – There was a vote at the Conference of Bishops – Bishop Margaret Payne shared results last Thursday.
ELCA discernment:
How do we test committed relationships?
How do we feel about divorce?
We need to be asking about our understanding of morality and faithfulness
If we make a Welcoming statement, we have to live out what it means – not just words, but actions. Welcoming could be viewed as an advertising ploy – we have to make sure that everyone feels safe.
There are disagreements within Welcome – maybe we need to live into the statement instead of living first into the attitude and then making a statement. (Trinity/Brattleboro VT did this)
GLBTs are already here at CtK.
Letter of the law versus the Spirit of the law.
Peaceable
We are a hospital for sinners – we are all sinners.
CtK is seen as a thoughtful, caring congregation.
We benefit from growth through discussion: we come from different places and have differing opinions, but need to be open to what the Spirit is trying to teach us.
We all need to be listening to one another – grow in appreciation of each other – even if we don’t all agree. We need to find commonality to move forward. Examine our predispositions.
Core Beliefs – Love
Are you struggling or are you comfortable with your positions on this subject? Maybe those who don’t accept GLBTs should be struggling.
Process of examining beliefs – evolving with discussion and explanation
Gospel is inclusive. The Light of Christ. Please God –> don’t try to please all the people!
Scripture interpretation
Who isn’t here tonight that may be against a welcome? Are they unwilling to discuss or afraid to? We thank those who have come to conversations and shared their opinions even if contrary to others. We need to be able to discuss openly and respect each others opinions.
We need to find an opportunity for everyone to voice and express their concerns –not just public discussion; maybe small groups or being able to write a note (public, forum, intimate forum, private expression) Blog?
We need to determine the will of the congregation – survey, more discussions/films and vote?
Seek enlightenment through prayer.
Check the library for books and videos. The movie shown was adopted for our library as were a few books on the subject. If you have any to share, let the task force know! Suggestion that movie be shown again? Suggestion that other movies be shared with congregation with discussion following.
There has been no agenda with our scheduled conversations. All conversations as well as the film were to be “thought-provoking” only. We need to make sure that all feel heard. These are challenging times and thoughts – deepening our connections with God, our faith, our church and each other. This is an opportunity/chance to search within ourselves and understand why people with a varying opinion feel that way.
Some may be worried about what we’re promoting with a Welcome Statement.
We can be Welcoming but we don’t all have to agree.
Film – is this propaganda? – noted the extreme views on the movie of hatred, then the messages to change hateful ways, but at the end in the credits, they had a mocking message of their own (can’t find that in their library! – making judgments and being hurtful, too)
Fundamentalists promoting violence – portrayals on the film show the extreme only.
There are extremists on both sides
We need to watch for false prophets – know them by their fruits.
We need to have inclusiveness for all – not pushing out some to get others in?
Do we offer bitter, hateful fruit?
Does it matter that the movie had no opinion by Lutheran theologians?
Church is not a social club.
We need to watch what the media portrays
What does the Lutheran church think?
Examine Lutheran teachings and beliefs – what is our foundation?
Can the ELCA be really true to both sides? ELCA already has fractures.
Currently, the ELCA does not allow marriage between same genders to take place.
Special thank you to everyone who brought soup and other food items and for the popcorn!
